Sexuality has become SUPER MESSY, especially when we consider the damage that the “Purity Movement” has done over the past 30 years and the ongoing struggle to define “Biblical Marriage.” Join Shannon & Rev. Dr. Angie McCarty as they discuss Angie’s doctoral research and her vision for a “NEW Sexual Ethic” that is encouraging to those both inside and outside of church walls.
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Steve says
Thank you, Shannon, for your continued work in this much-needed field. I have appreciated your trumpeting the glory of God’s design in your career. Though I agree that this episode notes a lot of “mess” to be deconstructed from the Purity movement, I am concerned that this discussion was just another pendulum swing too far in the other direction.
If I knew nothing else, I might quickly leave this conversation wondering why I would ever want to wait for marriage. After all, the bulk of our culture (just like the culture of the Roman first century – at the writing of the New Testament) mocks and derides as being simple anything that may approach the idea of an absolute divine design to sex. Yes, there are negative legalistic extremes, but I didn’t hear much, if any balance here.
John tells us that Jesus came full of both Grace and Truth. Maybe this will be in your follow-up discussion. The feeling I came away from the episode was holding up sexual relativity above anything else in fear of becoming a self-righteous and uptight religious jerk. In discussing marriage, and subsequently sex as well, Jesus went back to Genesis chapters 1-2, which concluded that both the man and the woman were naked and felt “NO SHAME.” The point conveys that God did have a design for sexuality and marriage, with the two spheres committed together.
Yes, there were some severe problems discussed. Basing faith on a “Shame Base Ethic” is horrendous. Putting the blame and burden on women for a man’s response is cruel. Talking up the mandate to wait without the promise of pleasure is heartbreaking. However, the entirety of the discussion seemed to be the proverbial of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There were numerous blanket statements made and logical straw man fallacies thrown out apparently to demonstrate that anyone coming to the table with the principle that God created sex for the marital union alone is a legalistic stick in the mud.
Angie noted “experiences” in connection to Biblical interpretation was. While personal experience will weigh in for some applications, it must be considered something other than prime for interpretation. A huge principle for Hermeneutics is the Author’s Intended Meaning. This principle prevents us from putting too much emphasis on our personal experience in the text and therefore superimposing our past or present feelings above the text to force it to say whatever we want.
Yes, there are some clear cultural concerns. Yes, the “Holy Kiss” wouldn’t fly too well today. Yes, the OT Hebrew Law would not apply to us today (which is good for those who like bacon), yet throughout the scripture, there are numerous occasions of clear Divine direction for human sexuality. “Do not commit Adultery.” “If any many looks at a woman lustfully, he has committed adultery in his heart.” “Let the marriage bed be kept pure.”
Yes, we must accept and express grace for when we have ALL fallen. (myself included here) Yes, the podcast was spot on in flagging the fallacy of some in the Purity Movement who painted a picture of God as being “Retributive in nature and only blessing if you do right and punishing if you do wrong.” However, the question was then begged with covert curiosity – “But what is right?”
Of course, there may be incredibly gray areas, such as holding hands and kissing. Indeed, there is complete freedom between a husband and wife in their marriage bed, or on the floor in the kitchen, for that matter. The rightness is in the marriage, in Adam and Eve’s commitment to each other and each other alone. But much of our modern openness to anything and everything, including people casually living together before marriage, clearly flies in the face of God’s plan.
To return to the reality that you have done a fantastic job on this, Shannon. Yes, girls, women, and men should know about the “clitoris” and every other joy God created for the marriage bed. The problem with the Purity Movement may have been too much reliance on a SYSTEM instead of personal discipleship by a mature Christian into the life of a young one. Systems never give us what is truly needed. I was think that the problem in this episode seems to be the absence of the Glory of God’s design for sex in marriage. Where is the praise for Song of Songs? That was for a husband and wife, and it’s arousing.
The biggest part of my energy in this response is not merely academic. But rather that of my own story of having blown it in high school – before this movement. But it is also the observations of close to 30 years in vocational ministry and the pain – and joy – I’ve witnessed. This discussion is personal for me, as my Bride was a virgin when we married, and I was not. So, I understand grace, teach it, and give it all the time. In addition, having been burnt and hurt, I want to direct others to the better.
The stories can go on and on: Late in the evening after one wedding, an exhausted Bride alone by herself and a new husband getting drunk with his friends, and I can’t help but wonder, “If they weren’t living together beforehand, would they still be here now?” Why didn’t this husband whisk his Bride away – because sex was nothing new to them? Other stories, testimonies from those who said their honeymoon night was much better because, even though they had been sexually active prior, they deliberately chose to hold off until they were married.
Finally, to a point you have made on other occasions, there is this reality that sex gets better over the years when it is reserved for the LONG-term marriage relationship. So, I think the honest answer here is not to throw God’s design out by bashing the broken attempts of the self-righteous but to highlight how amazing God’s design is.
Angie says
Hey Steve! What an incredibly thoughtful response! I appreciate your struggle with the purity movement teachings and your investment in getting this “right.” As I think I said in this episode, we could record 100 conversations on this topic, but limited it to 3. We’ve recorded 2…not that two will magically answer all of life’s questions. Maybe you’ll have a more full understanding of my overall message.
Even though I’ve finished my dissertation, I don’t have many clear answers about God’s perfect design. Adam & Eve weren’t married in the way our culture thinks of marriage. Scripture provides a bunch of models for marriage that we would never consider as healthy. Yes, Song of Songs provides an incredibly beautiful view of sexuality, but there’s good evidence that the two participants weren’t married.
As I consider what to do in the future with my academic work, the overall message I hope to promote is that this topic is messy! It’s hard to make overall mandates with an issue that is so holy and so personal. The best we can do is to continue to have conversations and challenge each other on healthy boundaries and relationships within God’s design for living in abundance.
If you’d like to take this out of the public sphere, feel free to email me any time! pastorangie@msn.com
Many blessings to you…and thanks for listening!!